Joan Rivers passed away on September 4, 2014 at the age of 81. In her
last major interview, the E! TV Fashion Police co-host spoke frankly
with The Daily Beast back in July about Hollywood celebrities’ thin
skins, contemplating suicide after her husband’s suicide, sex, dating,
and her own mortality
Interesting read if you ask us #RIPJoanRivers
Joan Rivers:
Oh, thank god, it’s been a long day. Go, go, go, anything you want to
ask me, ask me. [To the waiter] I’m begging you: Please bring us some
finger food.
Tim Teeman: Is Kristen Stewart suing you?
JR:
I don’t think she’s suing me, I think she stopped it. Her lawyer called
my lawyer and wanted the book to be taken from bookstores or a public
apology and my lawyer—I love him so much—said, “Have you read the book,
have you seen the disclaimer?” It’s a comedy book. I find it astonishing
that people can read something and say, “Will the Kardashians really
name their second baby, ’cause the first one is called North West, South
East?”
TT: So, Stewart’s legal threat surprised you?
JR:
I didn’t know who she was. She should have a sense of humor. It’s a
shame as I wanted her in court and made to touch a doll in the parts
where the director touched her.
TT: Who else have you upset with the book?
JR:
Adele is I hear very upset, the Kardashians are very upset. The ones
who aren’t upset are the smart ones who laugh at it and know it’s silly.
TT: Do celebrities approach you to tell you you’ve upset them?
JR:
I made so many jokes about poor Russell Crowe, he once knocked on my
dressing room door, and told me he wanted to go out on this chat show we
were on to laugh with me. Now he’s ruined it. I can’t make another joke
about him. Cher would get upset if I took her out of the act. She would
come to see me in Vegas, and ask, “Why am I not in the act?” She
understood that you’re only in the act if you’re relevant. I see the
Kardashians at E! I always say, “Stay famous, or I’m going to lose seven
to ten minutes of my act.”
TT: Do you know them well?
JR:
I think the mother [Kris] is the smartest woman in world: She took the
entire family, and now the next generation, and made them celebrities
for doing nothing. I think that’s brilliant. I want to sit at her feet
and take notes. I begged Melissa to do a sex tape. I said, “I’ll even
hold the lube.” Melissa is such a princess. She said, “What will the
thread count of the sheets be?”
TT: You mocked one up yourself with Ray J.
JR:
Before I met him I thought he was a sleazeball, but Ray J turned out to
be adorable. He was articulate, charming, full of a sense of humor.
TT: Why are Hollywood stars so sensitive?
JR:
I love when they say I’ve crossed a line. On the scale of 1 to Osama
bin Laden, I didn’t blow up buildings. I made a joke about Sharon Stone.
I think sometimes celebrities believe their own publicity—that they
really were a pizza waitress rather then being “discovered” on their
knees in front of some producer. No one says no to them because they’re
so spoilt. We have people on Fashion Police who come with lists of
demands longer than Schindler’s List. I can’t say who.
TT: Do you expect cosseting yourself?
JR:
I think “my people,” as they say, in quotes, try to shield me but I
want to know. Comedians are in the trenches, the ones that get out of
the trenches are ones in trouble. You cannot have dinner with Oprah and
then do a joke about her and Gayle, so you’d better choose what side
you’re on. I have no cosseting and protection, nor am I invited to the
same parties. I’m always shocked when I get an invitation. People are
always shocked when they see me at a party.
TT: So, regardless of your own riches…
JR: I have no riches.
TT: Come on, Joan, you are quite well off.
JR:
No, I’ve always been salaried, I’ve never owned anything. I’ve done
very well, lived very well. Sweetheart, I’m still working at Indian
casinos in Omaha.
TT: You seem terrified of not working.
JR: With comedians, you’re as good as your last joke.
TT: Where does the fear come from?
JR: It being over, and I can’t get a job in Macy’s selling hats.
TT: You could live off your money?
JR:
I don’t have money to do that. I could pull my living in and live OK,
but I don’t want to live OK. I’m very happy to live in my penthouse,
very happy I can pick up a check, very happy to have a great life, and
be able to spread my wealth a little bit.
TT: You like pop culture?
JR:
I love Vines. You make this 6.4-second drama, and you can reach 6
million viewers, and make people laugh. I find it so fabulous.
TT: Does being famous and being talked about matter to you?
JR:
Yeah, it gives you friends. It’s good to have people all day long
saying, “You make me happy, you make me laugh.” Fame is so wonderful.
When my husband committed suicide, I was in Chicago. In the middle of
the night at an airport someone told me they had lit a candle for me.
How wonderful is that? Fame makes the whole world your neighbor. Fame
gives you a great card to live your life and make it easier. Nancy
Reagan [Rivers’ longtime friend] got Edgar’s body out of Philadelphia
for me.
TT: Whaaat? How?
JR:
Edgar killed himself in Philadelphia and I couldn’t get the body out of
there. My daughter was going mad. I thought, “I’ll call the White
House.” It was 2 a.m. there. I said, “It’s Joan Rivers and it’s an
emergency. I must speak to Mrs. Reagan.” They woke her up.
TT: Seriously?
JR:
You don’t forget this, honey-bunny. I said, “I can’t get Edgar’s body
out of Philadelphia.” She said, “Let me see what I can do.” The next
day, his body came back to L.A. You don’t ever forget that, especially
when the chips are down. She’s older now. I’m going to California next
week, and I’ll see her.
TT: You told me once you were furious with Edgar for killing himself. Does one ever recover from a partner or loved one’s suicide?
JR:
I moved on to a point. I can’t really remember what Edgar was like. I
lived with [banker and socialite] Orin Lehman for eight years, and can’t
remember what he was like. You remember them but they all become fuzzy
and wonderful. You no longer miss their sharp wit, you miss an idea. It
changes tremendously and probably for the better.
TT: After Edgar died, you considered suicide yourself.
JR:
Oh, absolutely. It was about eight months later. Melissa wasn’t talking
to me, my career was in the toilet, I’d lost my Vegas contracts, I’d
been fired from Fox [where she had a talk show]. Carson and NBC [she had
appeared on the Tonight Show for years] had put out such bad publicity
about me. I was a pariah. I wasn’t invited anywhere. I was a non-person.
At one point I thought, “What’s the point? This is stupid.”
What
saved me was my dog jumped into my lap. I thought, “No one will take
care of him.” It wasn’t a friendly dog—only to me. I adored this dog. He
was theoretically a Yorkie, his mother cheated. His name was Spike. He
was the way you want your dog to be, devoted only to you. I was sitting
in this big empty house in Bel Air, with a phone with five extensions
which we no longer needed. I had the gun in my lap, and the dog sat on
the gun. I lecture on suicide because things turn around. I tell people
this is a horrible, awful dark moment, but it will change and you must
know it’s going to change and you push forward. I look back and think,
“Life is great, life goes on. It changes.”
TT: Do you ever think why Edgar did it [he overdosed on prescription drugs]?
JR:
When I was fired, he knew it was his fault [he was her manager], and he
committed suicide. I always think of Samson pulling down the temple.
Edgar just took all the columns away and pulled it down. We were all
down in the rubble, and he didn’t want to dig himself out. I understand
it, and feel terribly sorry for him, but I wonder if I’d be sitting here
today talking to you if he had not killed himself, if we wouldn’t have
ended up just a very bitter couple in a house on the hill somewhere.
TT: Do you really think that?
JR:
He would have said, “That’s it, they can all go to hell, and we’ll just
pull ourselves in.” After he died, because there was nothing, I had to
strike out again. A friend of mine at his funeral said, “He’s freed
you.” I thought that was very interesting. And in a way he did, ’cause I
had to really start again, thank god.
TT: You’ve had relationships since. Why did you and Orin Lehman break up?
JR:
He cheated on me. His accountant called me. The lady he had been seeing
had been making purchases using his money. The accountant thought it
was me and was calling to tell me to go easy. I finished with him the
very same day, which was stupid. He called me every single day for a
year, but I was so hurt and so betrayed.
TT: Did you want to marry him?
JR:
We didn’t want to marry. I still had six eggs left and thought, “Oh,
I’ll just make an omelet.” He was a wonderful companion. He lived
another three years after that. I miss someone saying, “I’m going
downstairs now. Do you want a sandwich?”
TT: Did you reconcile before he died?
JR:
Yes, to a point. I saw him a couple of times. When I see friends
finishing a relationship I say, “Just be careful, don’t shut every door.
What upsets you in July will not affect you that much in November.”
TT: How about dating now?
JR:
No, the hotel is now closed completely. I look so bad in a bathing suit
I kick sand in my own face. I’ve reached the point in my life where you
think, “That’s it.”
TT: You don’t miss sex?
JR:
You look at yourself and say, “How can you get a minus-44 dark room,
pitch black and then some. Maybe if Stevie Wonder called I’d say “OK.”
TT: But you still get horny, right?
JR:
Yes, but it’s not worth it. Old men have too many physical problems.
And with younger men, as my mother always said, “You need to be the
good-looking one.” I miss being able to say to someone after a party,
“Can you believe what that person said?” But I’m not bitching. If life
is 100 percent, I’ve got 90.
TT: Do men flirt with you?
JR:
Yes, it’s the most disgusting thing when they say to an older woman,
which I am, “How’s my gal doing?” Go fuck yourself, I’ve had more good
times than you’ll ever know, so don’t you dare patronize me.
TT: You love your grandson Cooper very much.
JR:
I’m crazy about him. He’s turning into good kid. He’s 13. He broke his
wrist—oh, it makes me cry—breaking up a fight between two friends. He’s
such a good guy and he’s funny, thank you God. And we can laugh almost
on an adult level. And it’s all due to Melissa, who is an amazing
mother.
TT: And you and Melissa?
JR:
We’re very close. We have nobody else: She has me and I have her. I
think it’s going to be very difficult when I die, very hard for her.
TT: You think about your own death?
JR:
Constantly. In your 80s, you’d be foolish not to think about that. I am
definitely going to be cremated. I’ve left money so the dogs can be
taken care of. I’ve said to Melissa, “Sell anything and everything you
don’t want. Don’t feel beholden to my possessions.” I feel almost
hysterical on that. I don’t want them to have a sense of guilt.
TT: How did you cope with your sister’s [Barbara Waxler] death last year?
JR:
There goes your link to your childhood and she was the memory bank of
our family. I have no one to call up and say, “Do you remember that time
Daddy punched out our neighbor?” “Do you remember the time that Mummy
bought the mink coat and didn’t tell Daddy?” I am trying to be a good
“mother” to her children, but they’re in their 30s. We weren’t very
close, but we were sisters. We fought, we made up. I miss not having “my
sister.”
TT: You joke about
celebrities on Fashion Police, but very noticeably not your co-hosts
Kelly Osbourne and Giuliana Rancic, who are always in the
tabloids—Kelly’s love life, Giuliana’s very thin body. Are they
off-limits?
JR: We really like
each other, and we’re very close. We close ranks. If someone isn’t nice
to any of them, they’re dead in the water, fucked. Giuliana has the
thinnest body, but she eats, she really eats, so what the hell are you
going to yell at her about? I love Kelly, and as for her love life, I
tell her to not do all this at 45, to get it out of her system now.
What’s she got to lose? She’s young, successful, and pretty. This is the
time to screw around.
TT: What about Melissa’s love life?
JR: I want to marry her off, so I know she’ll be taken care of. I’m worried about her.
TT: You mean, you dying and leaving her alone?
JR:
Totally. Your child is never not your child. You can be 90 and your
mother 120, but your mother is still worried about you. I worry about
Melissa. I look at everyone who she dates and think, “That one’s not
right, that one’s not right.” She’s dating a businessman in his mid-40s
who wants to retire to Bali. He’s made his money. But her career (as a
producer) is going so well. You look and think, “Somebody’s going to
have to make a compromise here.” As long as she’s happy, I don’t care.
TT: What about you and retirement?
JR:
Ha. Never. Do what? What fun is this, to wake up and say, “I don’t have
a minute free today?” It’s fabulous. I had dinner last night with
Barbara Walters, who’s an old friend, and looking forward to retirement.
I said, “You’re crazy.” I bet Barbara, who is very driven, within two
months will say, “Ooooh, I’ll do a special.” She told me, “I’m retired.
I’m going to have lunch and enjoy myself, I’m going to travel.” I said,
“Barbara, call me again in October.” It’s nonsense. What are you gonna
do? Take your dog for a walk? You’re Barbara Walters, you don’t want to
retire. You’re gonna watch one person on TV be an ass and say, “I could
have done a better job.”
TT: What should they do with The View?
JR:
Bring back Elisabeth, Joy, Barbara, Whoopi, and Sherri. Don’t fix what
ain’t broke. I think they’ve blown it out of the water. It was perfect
the way it was. Elisabeth represented America and conservatism. Joy was
great with her funny remarks. Barbara gave it gravitas. She’d be a fool
to go back unless ABC gave her a ton more money and a slice of the
network.
TT: You don’t seem to slow down?
JR:
It’s so exciting now. On In Bed With Joan I can say anything, there’s
Twitter and Vine. This is what it was like when we went from radio to
television. I feel we’re absolutely in the Wild West. It’s great.
TT: Which actress gives you the most material?
JR:
Oh well, Gwyneth Paltrow, my little Gwennie-Wennie, and her two
children, what is it…Apple and Sardine? Everything she says is wrong,
and the arrogance… The Kardashians are the gift that keeps on giving.
Just Kim’s wedding… I said I’d caught Kim’s bouquet, the first thing I
ever caught from Kim that I didn’t have to get a shot of penicillin for.
And Beyonce and Solange. Solaaannnggge. And Shia LaBeouf. I want to
introduce him to Amanda Bynes…they’d get married but couldn’t hold hands
during the vows because [Rivers is cackling] of the restraints in their
jackets.
TT: You make a lot of jokes about the alleged sexuality of Tom Cruise and John Travolta.
JR: Tom Cruise’s tombstone is going to say, “Here lies Tom Cruise—allegedly.”
TT: Why are A-list stars still closeted?
JR: I think Ricky Martin did it right: Make your money and say, “Guess what, this is my partner.”
TT: But that shows the intolerance of Hollywood that you can’t be out as a star in your prime, rather than later.
JR: I know, but do you sacrifice your life for others?
TT: Well, very brave people who have fought for gay rights have sacrificed their lives for others.
JR:
Good for them, I don’t know if I’d have gone that step if I were gay.
If I were an actress and young teens loved me, would I have come out and
said, “I hate young boys.” I don’t know. I work very hard for gay,
lesbian, and transgender teens who’ve been kicked out of home. I get
both sides. It’s very difficult.
[Rivers sees I haven’t eaten a caviar-splodged canapĂ©.]
JR:
Eat the caviar, eat the caviar. Kenneth Battelle, one of my great
hairdressers…he did Jackie [Kennedy], Barbra Streisand’s, and Gloria
Vanderbilt’s hair in the ‘50s and ‘60s. Ladies would send him caviar and
he hated caviar. He would call me up and say, “Jackie just sent me big
thing of Petrossian. Ugh.”
TT: What do you want to do that you haven’t yet?
JR:
Everything. I want to bring back [her 1994 Broadway show about Lenny
Bruce’s mother] Sally Marr… and Her Escorts. I was nominated for a Tony
for it, but lost out to Diana Rigg, that slut-whore-tramp who happened
to do Medea, and I had no children to set on fire. Everyone kept telling
me they’d voted for me. I really thought I was going to win. Bill Blass
made a dress for me. But I say the same to everyone else now. Nobody’s
going to vote for me now, I’m never going to win anything. I’m too
abrasive. I’ve not been invited to the Vanity Fair [Oscars night] party.
The woman who cleans my toilets gets invited to the Vanity Fair party.
It’s hilarious. But I think comics should be on the outside. If you’re
on the inside, it’s over.
TT: You’ve been rude about so many people.
JR:
No. I told the truth. I don’t think it’s rude. I haven’t been invited
to the White House since the Reagans were there. I’ve never been on
Saturday Night Live.
TT: Why are you still an outsider?
JR: I don’t know.
TT: How do you feel about what’s happening in late-night talk shows now?
JR:
It’s so full. If I did a show now, it would be in the late-late-late
slot, between 3 and 4 a.m. I’d call it, Nobody’s Watching At That Time,
So Go Fuck Yourselves.
TT: Why aren’t there women in the top hosting jobs?
JR:
You need a strong personality to do that job. It’s not to do with male
or female, but you’ve got to be tough yet soft, familiar yet in control.
I also found it incredibly boring after a while. You have to ask the
same questions of the same starlets all the time. “Did you have fun on
set?” “What’s it like working in Rome?” [Rivers makes a snoring sound.]
TT: You need to go, I know. What advice have you given Cooper about girls?
JR: Don’t trust them. They’re very needy. Smack her below the collarbone, it won’t show up in court.
TT [horrified]: Joan, that’s… [Rivers laughs.]
TT: What does Cooper say when you say stuff like that?
JR: He knows my sarcasm. He just laughs. “My grandmother’s crazy.”
